jump to navigation

Chodah Agest – 14/08/06 August 14, 2006

Posted by Muhajirah in General, Politics, Random Musings.
trackback

Asalaamu Alaikum

Insha’Allah you are all well,

So today is Pakistani Independence Day… don’t worry I’m not going to go on about how great Pakistan is and how much it has developed in the last 50 something years. I’ll leave that for others. Actually get ready for a rant… 

One thing I hate, is that people – Pakistanis – go on and on about their country. Sheesh! They have got to be the most nationalistic/patriotic (don’t know the difference!) people ever! Ok, maybe not the most (you can’t beat the Americans) but, just switch over to some paki channel on any day (never mind 14th august) but there is some wannabe American singing about how
Pakistan is so great. Then if u turn on the TV today, they are going on about it even more.
 

They repeat the same thing every year. Some documentary about Qaid-e-Azaam dude (who they love!), patriotic songs about Pakistan and some over dramatic film about Pakistan – India and then they drone on about Pakistan achieving so much in so little time… Man!! Get rid of Busharraf and then you’ll have achieved something! 

Then you have the Kashmiri, wannabe Pakis, who go on about their beloved homeland, trying to convince themselves that they are in fact Pakistanis, but lets be truthful yeh, most pakis hate Kashmiris… so who you trying to fool? 

So yeh… happy 14th August… or not! 

Wasalaam

Advertisements

Comments»

1. knicq - August 15, 2006

As a Pakistani I am offended by your comments. As a Mirpuri, I am offended all the more by your comments.

There’s a lot wrong with Pakistan today, but the last thing we need is comments of this sort. Pakistan is still our country, our identity; and it will be what we make it.

You make patriotism sound like a short-coming. I am sure you do not believe it to be a short-coming. Patriotism is a commendable trait in any people. Every human being owes it to his country to be faithful to it, and it takes patriotism to bring out that faithfulness. I can’t imagine a Muslim being complete without him being a patriot. If a Muslim is not a patriot, how will he work towards the cause of Islam in his country. If they were not patriots, Muslims would start leaving their countries if they found them to be un-Islamic. It takes patriotism in a Muslim to make an effort to make his country Islamic.

Quaid-e-Azam led the movement to create a separate homeland for Muslims of the sub-continent, he deserves respect from all Muslims, including you, for his endeavours, and he has earned our love.

As for Kashmiris being wanna-be Pakistanis, or Pakistanis hating Kashmiris, perhaps you need to stay a while in Pakistan and find out for yourself. In my five years in Lahore, even the Policemen, the notoriously corrupt lot of Pakistan, would let me off the hook at the frequent road-blocks after finding out I were an Azad Kashmiri. In my five years in Lahore, I found nothing but love, affection and respect as a Kashmiri from Lahoris, it was no different in Karachi where I spent almost a month, and in my daily interactions with Pakistani brethren here in the UAE not once have I been treated any different.Azad Kashmiris ARE Pakistanis. Please get that straight.
Its easy for you sitting in the UK, which I am presuming is where you are, pretending you know what you are talking about when you pass comments on the bonds between Kashmiris and their fellow-Pakistanis. It would be great if you made an effort at finding out the ground realities before you air your opinions on the matter though.

I am trying hard not to say anything harsh. I know you as a good muslimah from your blogs. However, I am offended, and an apology from you will do nicely.

Regards

2. another_sister_ihrabiyah - August 15, 2006

to knicq:

patriotism always becomes a shortcoming when taken too far. There should be some credibility in the country or its people to boast about in the first place, otherwise its called khushfehmi/arrogance/amour propre.

Yes all pakistanis are not bad and once in a while u can find a gem., But its the majority of the populace that gives the impression of a particular country to an outsider. And pakistanis all over the world do not give a good impression.

I certainly agree with sister warrior that switching to any paki channel these days does nothing but leave a yucky taste in the mouth. Marching along ‘we are great’, ‘sab say pehlay pakisan’, ‘anthem before song’ and women dancing on songs heavily dubbed in bollywood (sometimes even more bollywood than bollywood itself), half naked, marking this ‘glorious day’ is an absolute shame and dishonor to the slogan ‘Pakistan ka matlab kiya La Ilaha Ill Allah’ and to the lives of thousands of muslims who persihed in the way.

One thing more, do pakistanis know only one way to celeberate. Be it Eid, chodah agest, taees march, or as far as even honoring the shaheeds of Kargill. Its always women dancing. Its always music. I really fail to understand this phenomenon.

>> even the Policemen, the notoriously corrupt lot of Pakistan, would >>let me off the hook at the frequent road-blocks after finding out I >>were an Azad Kashmiri
well this maybe one problem , when almost every kashmiri tries to use the “kasmiri card” to get off hooks.

i’ve lived in kashmir for some time and remember one incidence. We were walking up the mountains and had some stuff on two mules (the most efficient vehicle in those terrain). One of the mule slipped and fell on the trail. There were some kashmiris sitting alongside the trail, and since we were having difficulty in managing the mule, we asked them to some help us. One of them calmly said “oh jee ass noo chad soo.. Aapee utsoo tay chal soo..” (leave it alone, it will get up on its own and then will walk). We fumbld with all the bags on the mule, took the stuff down, managed the reins, applied some medictaion on the abrasion at the foot of the mule, distributed our baggage and then moved. It took us good 20-25 minutes while the locals just sat there and stared at us.

In the recent distruction of the earthquake, we were agian in the area and well we were finding it difficult to find some local labour to carry out menial tasks. I was in one of the camps and was gathering information about the available skillset in the area and asked one of the locals about his job. He said that he used to run a tandoor in the area. We were paying 250 RS per day to the guy from Pindi to do the tandoor work at one of the kitchens. So i said why dont you work for us, u can earn some money as well and will be helpful to us. He calmly said “oh jee may kam naee ker soo. ussa naal family hay” (i will not work, we have family with us). No matter how hard i tried, he dod not budge while enjoying three times a meal everyday on charity.

I’m not saying that all Kashmiris are bad or lazy, coz on the other hand there was an almost 50 year old kashmiri, who would not take anything from us untill he carried some bags on his shoulders or helped us in distribution of goods for atleast 6-8 hours everyday, a true inspiration. But it would be realistic to acknowledge the love-hate relationship between pakistanis and kashmiris. I also got the chance to talk to a lot of “Azaad” kashmiris regarding their status as being azaad and their identity as kashmiris and pakistanis. Well without going into details, the overwhelming mojority was making quite a mockery of pakistan and their plight as “azaadis”. And i compeltely agree with them, Kashmir is Kashmir, its not part of Pakistan and should be given complete “azaadi”. They have the right to their own land and their own laws.

And it would remove a great excuse for the Army to eat up 50% of the budget in the name of kashmir and perhaps then pakistan can spend more than 2% of its budget on education.

>>If a Muslim is not a patriot, how will he work towards the cause of >>Islam in his country

It is indeed a very wrong conclusion. A muslim does not work out of patriotism to establish deen, its the love of Allah and deen and the way of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) that drives a muslims to establish the word of Allah, Its indeed very misguiding to relate it to patriostism and then state it as a premise in the argument.

>>Quaid-e-Azam led the movement ….. he deserves respect from all Muslims

What?, why does he deserve respect from all the muslims????. Why lets say a saudi muslim or a syrian muslim should bow his head in reverance to the ‘dude’. To rest of the muslims he is a ‘dude’, who was a great and very strong leader, He had high integrity and honor and perseverance and led the muslims of the subcontinent to an ‘independant state’ in name of islam (a task that has yet to be achieved). And by the way he was an Ismaili, a sect that is not even considered muslims by most of the scholars. Sure he deserves respect as a leader just like gandhi or nehru, but calling on all muslims to respect your leader is just ridiculous.

>>ts easy for you sitting in the UK, which I am presuming is where >>you are, pretending you know what you are talking about when >>you pass comments on the bonds between Kashmiris and their >>fellow-Pakistanis

in UK a vast mojority of pakstanis are actually kashmiris, you will be surprised if you care to lookup the stats. So assuming that someone living in the UK would not know the relationship between pakistanis and kashmiris is just as presumptious as someone claiming he/she knows the relationship very well who has lived in lahore for 5 years and a few months in karachi.

>>However, I am offended, and an apology from you will do nicely.
what????, an apology for what????, for having an opinion. For having observations, for observing whats in Pakistani media?? and saying it as is??? And your reference to sister warrior as being a good muslimsh.. was that an attempt to religiously blackmale her, so that you can get ur apology?? quite hilarious

“Man!! Get rid of Busharraf and then you’ll have achieved something!”
now that would be a proud pakistani day…

– another sister ihraabiyah
(sorry to budge in ..just coudnt hold on)

3. doshes - August 15, 2006

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/south_asia_india0s_partition/html/6.stm

chodah agest is the date
today, we will celeberate
our women will dance on indian tunes
our men will douse in alcohol fumes

once, carrying upon shoulders, the weaks,
they set forth marching, in the streets
all enchanting, on a new rehla
pakistan ka matlab kiya
la ilaha ill Allah

they shed tears, they shed blood, they shed honor
they shed white sheets on the faces of horror
the youth came robbed of thier innocence
the old came with stern faces of persistance

all the raked, along with all the raped,
all of one dream and all of one faith
came to build an islamic fortress, nay! a castle
alas! today are lead by an enlightened rascal

today
somewhere, well before dawn
someone will get up without a frown
will call the one who is in a quietus
will stand in a wall, along with the righteous

will you hold my hand, and tread along
to honor the spilled, long gone
will you hold my hand and build the dream
to establish the one and only deen

chodah agest is the date
today, we will celeberate
our women will dance on indian tunes
our men will douse in alcohol fumes

4. Irhabiyah - August 15, 2006

Salaam knicq

Thank you for your somewhat heated reply :)

Firstly if you are offended my post then my apologies, please forgive me, as i did not mean for it to be offensive to anyone.

Secondly, I have personally experienced people looking down at Kashmiri’s, so no I am not as clueless as u think. Perhaps my comments are a generalisation but who cares, these are just my ramblings on my blog.

My dislike for people celebrating 14th August is not because I have anything against Pakistan – I’m sort of indifferent about it. But it’s the sense of pride that you see on that day. Subhan’Allah, it’s totally unislamic.

Pakistan has achieved much in its short existence, no-ones denying that, but it has failed in the very thing it was created for – a homeland for Muslims. Yes, it’s Muslims who live there, but it is more or less a secular country and for that reason alone, I distance myself away from it.

As Muslim it is my duty to better the place I are living in, not because I have any sort of loyalty to the country I am living in, but because I have loyalty to my deen, it’s an obligation!

Again, I apolgise if I offended you, it was not meant to be taken all too seriously…

5. Irhabiyah - August 15, 2006

Salaam

another_sister_irhabiyah

Your comment was for some reason sent to the spam box therefore i only just realised you commented

Jazaak Allah khaire for your reply… you summed up most of my thoughts….

Doshes… JAK for the link, some really sadenning pics…

Didn’t realise it would turn into such a debate… insha’Allah we can maintain the adab of debating :)

6. knicq - August 15, 2006

I lost a half written response to the above comments to my ineptness around anything more modern than the square wheel. I will try and summarize them again here.

I wrote my earlier comment when I was angry and offended by the post. Anger seldom, if ever, brings out any positives. I seem to have left a lot of wrong impressions, which another_sister-Irhabiyah has built her response on. I feel I will have left an important task incomplete if I do not clarify my position here, as an Azad kashmiri, as well as a very proud Pakistani.

You ask me what I am proud of? Well, there you have me. Pakistan has done no justice to its potential, and Pakistanis as a nation are a far cry from what our leaders had envisaged us to be at the time of creation of Pakistan. Nonetheless, I fail to understand you when you ask me to shed my pride in my country, or to let somebody propogate misinformation about the ground realities of the country. Patriotism is a natural instinct in all human beings instilled by Allah. All cultures, all people and all history have always condoned patriotism, and the word for one devoid of patriotism in any language is less than flattering. It is a lot like marriage. Allah has made marriage the sacred bond between man and woman, and Islamic or not, every culture has always had its own version of marriage, and a relationship without a marriage is still looked down upon – at least in most of the ‘univilized’ world. I pray for all Muslims to stay uncivilized enough to uphold the sanctity of marriage as well as patriotism.

I maintain that a Muslim devoid of patriotism is incomplete. Without patriotism, a Muslim will gravitate to the nearest point where he can practice Islam freely, with patriotism he will make his country a place where he can practice Islam freely. It is understood that we as Muslims should always be helping out our Muslim brethren when in need, but the fact remains that when our own brother, our own flesh and blood, needs our help our motivation to help him out is more pronounced, more direct and the results more profound. Similarly, as Muslims we are driven to establish the word of Allah, but as Muslims from a certain area we will be more highly driven to establish the word of Allah in our own land, in our own people. This is precisely why people came from afar, embraced Islam at the hand of the prophet Mohammad (SAW), and went back to their villages, countries and regions to spread the word of Allah. Thre is also the example of the Mohajireen who looked forward to conquering Makkah, mainly because it housed the house of Allah, but also because it was their homeland. Lets not forget that Ka’aba was not our qible initially, and it was declared so because the Prophet wished in his heart for it to be the qibla. Denying patriotism is unnatural, and not having patriotism un-Islamic, and if you disagree, let us agree to disagree.

I am not sure if I can go about disecting your response just as you did mine, but if you agree to drop the presumption that I condone what Busharraf and his regime have ushered into our media, and the culture they have helped bring in, perhaps I can limit my response to the matter closer to my heart – the relationship of Kashmiris with their fellow-Pakistanis.

It is wrong of you to accuse the Kashmiris of using their ‘Kashmiri card’, because I know we use no such thing. I resent your implication also that I used my Kashmiri card at any point. The fact is that all road-blocks require you to present your identity card, and the policemen would often chat with me nicely after noticing that the address on my PAKISTAN ID CARD stated that I were a Kashmiri, ask me a question or two about what my city was like, and let me pass. Perhaps, you are misguided by your zeal to find fault here.

You have quoted a few examples to infer that Kashmiris and Pakistanis have a love-hate relationship, and I remember you had also remarked that five years is a small time to spend in Lahore and Karachi to make any objective conclusions about the relationship
we Kashmiris enjoy with our fellow-Pakistanis. I am from Mirpur Azad Kashmir, an over-whelming majority of the Kashmiris that reside in UK are from my city, an over-whelming majority of my own family resides in the UK, and I have a very fair idea of how well those people are informed about how Pakistan treats Azad kashmir, and how Azad Kashmiris are treated by other Pakistanis. Please do not get me started on them. It is all very well making those inferences and as you call it, ‘mockery’ of Pakistan as well as their ‘azaadi’ for these people, ask them the very basic question about the history of Kashmir and Pakistan and watch them stammer. I know of many whose main intercation with Pakistanis in Pakistan is at Islamabad airport, and whose only exposure to Pakistan is limited to the road from Pindi airport to Dina mod. Ignorance cannot be a premise for informed decisions or opinions. I am not as presumptious as you think I am after five years in Lahore and sometime in Karachi. By the way, I have also spent a couple of years in Mirpur in my childhood, which I do not count towards much, but I visit my folks frequently enough to know just what my fellow Kashmiris are talking about.

The idea behind Pakistan, the ideology of Pakistan is the two nation theory i.e. that there were two nations in the sub-continent. Muslims and Non-Muslims. Pakistan was created for the Muslims of the sub-continent, it was to be made of Muslim Majority areas – this is the ideology that binds – the last time we forgot this binding factor, our country was halved. If we take your premise of Kashmir belongs to Kashmiris, pretty soon we would be talking of Punjab belongs to Punjabis, Sind to Sindhis, Balochistan to Balochis and Frontier to Pathans. Our enemies, within and outside, have already exploited such divisive thinking to create unrest in our country – the last thing we need is well meaning attempts like yours. Oh, and in case you had not noticed, Kashmir has little chance of survival on its own. There are much fewer resources in this land, untless you propose we cut down all the wood, or promote tourism. Cutting the wood has obvious eco-disastrous implications, and tourism for whatever dollars it might bring in carries a cultural price-tag, we Kashmiri Muslims can ill-afford to pay.

God forbid, even if there were to be a separate Kashmir, just how long do you think would it take for our enemies to stoke the fires of Sunni-Shia fueds to split it further. In unity lies strength Madam, and as Muslims we need to be uniting our people, not advocating divisions.

To your xamples of apathy in our Kashmiri brethren, I would like to propose you read my experience with my mostly non Kashmiri Pakistani brethren in the relief effort http://www.knicq.com/archives/hope-for-recovery-cgl-viii/. I also remember ending up on a Kashmiri community on the net, and finding Mirpuris talking about how Pakistan Govt. despite its nuclear arsenal had failed to get aid to the affected areas in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake. My question to him was simple: Did he expect Pakistan Govt. to nuke the weather? The point being that sometimes people from our part of the world are prone to unrealistic expectations, owing to their simplicity and sometimes to their ignorance. it does not mean that we take their word on what defines the strong bonds between Kashmiris and their fellow-Pakistanis. You will notice I make an effort to state that Pakistanis are my fellow countrymen. I hope next time around you wish to deduce anything about this relationship, you can factor this in too.

AS for the Quaid “dude”, which is a word I took and take exception to. I know of no-one who uses the word dude to describe national heroes, let alone the father of a nation. I maintain that he deserves the respect from all Muslims for his endeavours, because he toiled for the cause of millions of Muslims, and as you rightly said, he was an Ismaili himself, which makes it all the more important that he command our respect because he was not even accepted as a Muslim by some of the Muslims he worked for the betterment of. He commands our request – just as do Mohammad Bin Qasim, Tariq Bin Ziyad, Yousuf Bin Tashfeen, Salahuddin Ayoubi, King Faisal of Saudi Arabia, and all other heroes of the Islamic World who dedicated themselves to the cause of Islam and Muslims. Even if you do not respect him, give me this courtesy, respect my hero when you talk of him to me.

Last but not the least, my comment that I know Irhabiyah as a good Muslimah was not to elicit an apology from her. You think me too base. My comment was a clarification for why I was trying to be not too harsh.

It is gracious of Irhabiyah to offer that apology though, I humbly accept it. I offer my apology too for flying off the handle like that. I am an Azad Kashmiri, who wakes up every morning and chooses to be a Pakistani – and in that I think me twice as Pakistani as any other Pakistani, because I am not born a Pakistani like them.

Sure there is a lot wrong with Pakistan of today, but mayoosi gunah hai, and I am determined that better sense will prevail one day. I pray to Allah that Pakistan realizes its potential as the fortress of Islam, and I will do my small part in making it the Islamic state it was
meant to be. If finally all else fails, and all hope is lost, perhaps I will consider hijra, move my family out of there, and I pray to Allah that such a day may never ever dawn. Short of that, I am a Pakistani, and proud of it – like it or not.

7. knicq - August 16, 2006

Oh, and I was wondering… were I to make hijra, where exactly would I be headed?

Makkah and Madina are the obvious choices, but can we really cram over a billion Muslims in the two cities?

8. another_sister_irhabiyah - August 16, 2006

to knicq

it was indeed quite hillarious to see u fumble and juggle with all ur assumptions mixing ur premises with facts, and then coming back to shoot urself in ur own foot, when u stated that one will be an ‘incomplete muslim’ without sharing the same zeal for ur country as u do and then saying that u will do the hijra when ‘all else fails’. So u’d rather become an ‘incomplete muslim’ after making hijra.

its much better to be a good listner than an incessant rambler. If you go back and read what i wrote that “patriotism always becomes a shortcoming when taken too far”.. its the access that i and sister ihrabiyah were referring to, and a pompous nation with nothing on the sheet doesnt look nice at all. Ofcourse loving ones environment and people is natural and encouraged, but nothing comes before Allah and His prophet (pbuh) and i dont need to be a patriot/nationalist tobe a ‘comple’ muslimah. For me, following my Allah’s word, His Prophet’s (pbuh) sunnah and the way of the rightly guided salaf are enough to make me a complete muslimah.

maybe u never used ur ‘kashmiri card’, but trust me when i say that its used a lot by some people, take it from someone who has lived in kashmir as an observer actually right at the border, a place called ‘kayle’ way inside kashmir, and lahore and karachi too, although the attitude of the people in general was disgusting and the staring of the men.. oh my god… have u never seen a niqabi warrior with her sword and shield (well hidden under her abaya.) i mean , i wear niqaab, and there is nothing u can see inside my jilbab, and yet why do u have to bore holes in… no exception be it a kashmiri or a pakistani or a kashmiri pakistani. i digress.

i completely agree with u that kashmir can not survive on its own and it definitely needs something like pakistan to stick to. Thats indeed a very good survival strategy. no objection to that.

its great that u ‘choose’ to be a pakistani everyday when u wake up and that twice too.through out the post u were struggling with ur identity as kashmiri/mirpuri and pakistani. going on about how u consider ‘other pakistanis’ as ur fellow countrymen, ur brethren and ur kashmiri compatriots as well. im sure its much more complex than that and no matter how much u blab about it perhaps u can never come to terms with it. like it or not

i was once at the phone booth to make an urgent call and found out that i had no change with me, so i went to the street and asked a passer by for a change, but he did not have the change for a ten, and instead he politely offered me some change and we made a pact that if i see him again i’ll return his change and if he dies before that, then he has forgone the loan. Now i demand that all the muslims around the world respect this hesidic jew.

it was quite proposterous of u to put the ‘dude’ (it would be nice of u to go back and read my comments on jinnah as a leader, remember my advice) along with bin tariq and bin zayad. I think you are a good muslim/ah. However, I am offended, and an apology from you will do nicely.

– my apologies to u sister irhabiyah, after all its ur blog that im ranting on and will not prolong this debate anyfurther, coz seems like a futile discussion anyways.
I enjoy reading ur blog and maybe inshalla we will meet someday in a remote and secluded village in syria with million other niqabified sisters, all basking in the nur of emaan and ofcourse our righteous children and husbands :)
i would really love that…
in the mean time check this fajr adhaan in tarim
http://ez-files.net/download.php?file=c3fddecf

on a separate note if you can (and all the visitors on ur blog) please help this sister in her times of trial, may Allah grant her and all the others the strength to hold on to the rope of Allah in all trials.
http://ummtayyab.com/?page_id=5
http://ummtayyab.com/

– doshes, good link. Did u write the poem urslef?

9. Irhabiyah - August 16, 2006

Salaam knicq

I know your response was mainly directed at another_sister_irhabiyahm but I’d just like to make a few points;

“Similarly, as Muslims we are driven to establish the word of Allah, but as Muslims from a certain area we will be more highly driven to establish the word of Allah in our own land, in our own people. This is precisely why people came from afar, embraced Islam at the hand of the prophet Mohammad (SAW), and went back to their villages, countries and regions to spread the word of Allah.”

I very much doubt that is was due to patriotism that people spread Islaam, but it was because they wanted to see the world of Allah raised highest. Not just in their own village or countries but across the land.

“Thre is also the example of the Mohajireen who looked forward to conquering Makkah, mainly because it housed the house of Allah, but also because it was their homeland. Lets not forget that Ka’aba was not our qible initially, and it was declared so because the Prophet wished in his heart for it to be the qibla.”

The Prophet longed for the ka’bah to be the qibla, because it was the qibla of Ibrahim (as) and not due to anything else

“Denying patriotism is unnatural, and not having patriotism un-Islamic, and if you disagree, let us agree to disagree.”

There I have to disagree with you. What is so unislamic about not having patriotism? Me, born and bred in dar ul kufr, absolutely hate this place, but that does not mean that I love my brothers and sister that are here (well all Muslims) for the sake of Allah?

It is not patriotism that makes you want to help out your brother, that unites the Ummah, but is love and hate for the sake of Allah. I know many sisters who I love dearly, but not because they are Kashmiris, Pakistanis, Arabs or whatever but because they are Muslims!

“Oh, and I was wondering… were I to make hijra, where exactly would I be headed?
Makkah and Madina are the obvious choices, but can we really cram over a billion Muslims in the two cities?”

Good question. Read this: http://inshallahshaheed.wordpress.com/2006/08/13/fyi-hijrah-must-be-done-as-soon-as-possible/

Also, it’s worth listening to the lecture as well!

another_sis_irhabiyah:

Salaam my dear sister.

No worries sis, go ahead and rant, debate… my house is your house :D

“I enjoy reading ur blog and maybe inshalla we will meet someday in a remote and secluded village in syria with million other niqabified sisters, all basking in the nur of emaan and ofcourse our righteous children and husbands :)”

Hehe… Insha’Allah sis, especially when u make it sound so nice :)

“on a separate note if you can (and all the visitors on ur blog) please help this sister in her times of trial, may Allah grant her and all the others the strength to hold on to the rope of Allah in all trials.”

Jazaak Allah Khaire for the links. All the sisters will be in my duas. May Allah protect them from the enemies of Islaam and keep them steadfast.

Wasalaam

10. knicq - August 17, 2006

W/Salaam,

After reading another sister irhabiyah’s response, I had decided to refrain from pursuing this discussion any further; not because I found anything convincing mind you, but because it was apparent that this was no longer a discussion, or would not be one for long. It seemed to be increasingly becoming less than discussion.

I will resist the temptation to draw attention to the ‘hilarious’ as well as the ‘contradicting’ parts in another sister’s responses.

However, I stand corrected about the reason behind why the prophet Mohammad (PBUH) wished Ka’aba to be the Qibla. May Allah forgive me, and may He reward you for clarifying the point.

I am not sure how, but you sisters seem convinced that patriotism takes precedence over Islam in my books, or other patriot Pakistanis’ books. Let me assure you, if I have left that impression, its a wrong impression. Please discard it. I also fail to understand why Islam and Patriotism are mutually exclusive, nor do I understand how loving your own country men in a Muslim country implies love lost for other Muslims. It is natural for Muslims to love their Muslim brethren, just as it is natural for them to love their fellow-countrymen. Islam binds Muslims, Patriotism binds Muslims of one country further, friendships and blood relations bind them even further. This is Allah’s way. Why deny it? It is not against Islam.

It goes without saying that taking anything to extreme, including patriotism, negates its value. Therein, perhaps, lies the difference between Nationalism and Patriotism. I do not recall having advocated taking patriotism too far. I do not recall disagreeing with you on the point about the ‘cultural’ activities either. I remember having written a few lines ages ago, when Pakistan media was a lot more less un Islamic than it is today.

Uryani ab alamat-e-irtiqa thehri hai,
Ahl-e-watan main ghairat na haya thehri hai,
Dukhtaran-e-watan se kia kahiye jin ke liye,
Burqa qissa-e-maazi huwa, chadar saza thehri hai.

Not sure if you understand Urdu well, so loosely it translates into “Nakedness is now a mark of progress, The people of my country are now devoid of honor and modesty, What do we tell the daughters of my country, For whom Burqa is a relic of past, and chador is a punishment.”

Point being, I do not think we disagree on a lot. What we do disagree on is our view of the bonds between Kashmiri Pakistanis and non-Kashmiri Pakistanis. Perhaps, we have met different people who have shaped our diffferent views. For all our sake, I hope you meet more people of the sort I have met, and you meet more people who feel the way I feel about this topic. You will agree another division is the last thing Muslims need in their ranks.

Wassalam,

11. TSO - August 20, 2006

“Then you have the Kashmiri, wannabe Pakis, who go on about their beloved homeland, trying to convince themselves that they are in fact Pakistanis, but lets be truthful yeh, most pakis hate Kashmiris… so who you trying to fool?”

What a loada bakwaas

12. Nishat - August 21, 2006

Every country has struggled through a past and emerged stronger. Every citizen of every such country has had forefathers who’ve witnessed, and often, been a part of this heroic accomplishment.

Many among us have forefathers who have fought for our nation’s independence. Relatives who have helped in building the country’s infrastructure and people we know who have dedicated all the years of their lives to public service.

And we, their descendants, owe it to them because we don’t have to pay for the air we breathe.

Patriotism, is keeping your country alive through culture and progress. Patriotism is defending your country when you know it is right, and thinking forward to resolve an issue that may have gone wrong.

Someone praising Pakistan with a song and using English as a medium is doing the media-fed hysteric world a favor by insisting that he too loves his country because it has a beautiful heritage and wonderful people… and not because it has nuclear weapons. May be his song failed to appeal.. may be he couldn’t pull off the accent too well, but he did make his point. You know he is a patriot and he didn’t have to pull a trigger to prove it.

Documentaries about historic “dudes” keep that country alive by informing her growing children about where they come from, who they are and why they are who they are. When you sit in the by stands and laught at someone tripping over an obstacle in his path, you fail to realise that you could be prone to the exact same situation if you were in his place. When a country is emerging from hundreds of years of deprivation of rights and depths of captivity, you can’t expect it to turn into a developed nation, full of people who know exactly what they have to do. There will be extremes, there will be exceptions, there will be mistakes. And that obvious mark of growth is not worth pointing a finger at… at all.

13. proud kashmiri - November 30, 2006

yo listen aza kashmiris ARE not pakis you got that it is like calling a french person brithesh just because pakistan are in charge of kashmir it does not mean that kashmiris are pakis i also dont see why a majority of kashmirs want 2 be pakis what is so special about them you should be proud of where you come from

14. kashmiri lion - January 10, 2010

What ever people wanna say we are Azad Kahmiris , belonging to Pakistan ( ethnically) and i’m afraid a few rants on a blog will not change that!

15. kashmiri lion - January 10, 2010

* mind the typos:

Kashmiris is what I meant


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: